Thank you Mark for the perspective check. I also agree it is needed. Besides the potential damage this could cause "our cause", you really miss some great opportunities to build community when you disregard your fellow trail user. My wife and I have met some great folks who come from all over, by just taking a few moments to respect and engage on an encounter be it on the trail or in the parking lot.

We met 4, 40 somethings on a 10 day road trip from Utah and Arizona this summer in the parking lot. They were as excited as any group of high school kids out for an adventure. They specifically targeted Galbraith on their way to Whistler and we were able to exchange information as they were more than game for showing us around in their neck of the woods (Moab, Gooseberry Mesa) if we ever ventured that way. We also hooked up in the parking lot with the guy from Georgia who sought out the WHIMPS for guidance on seeing the mountain. He was also so happy to be here. We have a great resource and never under estimate the power of a little PR by way of trail respect, or just being willing to engage for a few minutes.

CH

--- In whimps_mtb_club@yahoogroups.com, "markomtb13" <markomtb13@...> wrote:
>
> It was with interest I watched a thread on another forum...at least until it degenerated into the standard mud slinging troll fest. But, since I have been thinking about posting something on the same topic for quite some time it finally sent me into keyboard mode.
>
> Due to a bulging disc at L5 I've been off the bike for about eight weeks now. The disc pain along with being off the bike has made for some rough weeks. So, in an effort to get some mental recharge I've been hitting up Galbraith in biped mode instead and it has given me some perspective.
>
> Unfortunately, it seems a lack of respect for our fellow trail users is becoming more and more pervasive. A general attitude of get out of my way-I'm in the zone, don't kill my flow (both up and down), this is about my ride and screw yours is creeping in and casting a shadow that if becomes too long will be our user group's downfall. Ok, maybe a little drama here but ramifications of poor user behavior are realities. And, to be fair a group of trail runners was among the worst encounters.
>
> Lately, I've encountered this on multiple fronts-whether riding with my three kids, walking my dog, hiking with my 73 year old dad or trying to regain some mental space and fitness so I can get back on the bike again. Its a disturbing trend and one I can only imagine impacts other non-bike riding users even more.
>
> Over my eight weeks of bipedal Galbraith action I've been appalled at how many times I've been almost mowed over by a biker with nary a head nod, hello or any other acknowledgment. Now mind you I know what its like to want to keep the flow and I'm pretty good about getting off trail so as to SHARE the trail. But, in my early state I physically could barely move, let alone fast-and more than a few times pain ensued as I stepped aside to avoid collision. But the self centered state of riders and any alternative thoughts of my condition and right to be on the trail was obviously non-existent.
>
> So, this experience of the past two months reminded me of one of my own social faux pas. One day I headed out on a ride, it had been a bad day at work, kids were driving me nuts and the ride was going to be my reset. As I cruised up the Ridge looking to push the pace I encountered a slower rider. I rang my bell, no response. I barked out "Rider UP!", no response. Again, I barked "Rider UP!" this time louder, again no response.
>
> After what seemed like forever, but was really a matter of minutes, we exited out at the top of the Ridge by the kiosk. I was about ready to say something about the lack of rider etiquette when I realized it was my issue not his. Pulling up along side I noticed the hearing aids. It hit me big time-he was hard of hearing, not just hogging the tail and being a jerk...I was the jerk. I thought about the situation the whole rest of the ride.
>
> Yeah, I've been the president of the WMBC for years, I've volunteered thousands of hours, built tons of trail, fielded complaints, gone to meetings, negotiated stewardship agreements etc. etc. But the reality is I don't have ANY more right to the trail than he did because of my efforts. In fact my efforts, and I dare say the WMBC efforts in general, are exactly for his right to the trail as much as mine.
>
> A bit of perspective, a flow check if you will, is a good thing. One maybe we should all do a bit more often.
>
> Share the trails so we can save the trails!
>
> Peace,
>
> MP
>

That's odd.
I have never met a rude trail user on the mountain, I get a grunt or a nod from most folks and a greeting from many.

... even though I'm usually on foot and going the "wrong" way up the trail :)

Morris

>>> "markomtb13" <markomtb13@yahoo.com> 9/6/2010 1:17 PM >>>

It was with interest I watched a thread on another forum...at least until it degenerated into the standard mud slinging troll fest. But, since I have been thinking about posting something on the same topic for quite some time it finally sent me into keyboard mode.

Due to a bulging disc at L5 I've been off the bike for about eight weeks now. The disc pain along with being off the bike has made for some rough weeks. So, in an effort to get some mental recharge I've been hitting up Galbraith in biped mode instead and it has given me some perspective.

Unfortunately, it seems a lack of respect for our fellow trail users is becoming more and more pervasive. A general attitude of get out of my way-I'm in the zone, don't kill my flow (both up and down), this is about my ride and screw yours is creeping in and casting a shadow that if becomes too long will be our user group's downfall. Ok, maybe a little drama here but ramifications of poor user behavior are realities. And, to be fair a group of trail runners was among the worst encounters.

Lately, I've encountered this on multiple fronts-whether riding with my three kids, walking my dog, hiking with my 73 year old dad or trying to regain some mental space and fitness so I can get back on the bike again. Its a disturbing trend and one I can only imagine impacts other non-bike riding users even more.

Over my eight weeks of bipedal Galbraith action I've been appalled at how many times I've been almost mowed over by a biker with nary a head nod, hello or any other acknowledgment. Now mind you I know what its like to want to keep the flow and I'm pretty good about getting off trail so as to SHARE the trail. But, in my early state I physically could barely move, let alone fast-and more than a few times pain ensued as I stepped aside to avoid collision. But the self centered state of riders and any alternative thoughts of my condition and right to be on the trail was obviously non-existent.

So, this experience of the past two months reminded me of one of my own social faux pas. One day I headed out on a ride, it had been a bad day at work, kids were driving me nuts and the ride was going to be my reset. As I cruised up the Ridge looking to push the pace I encountered a slower rider. I rang my bell, no response. I barked out "Rider UP!", no response. Again, I barked "Rider UP!" this time louder, again no response.

After what seemed like forever, but was really a matter of minutes, we exited out at the top of the Ridge by the kiosk. I was about ready to say something about the lack of rider etiquette when I realized it was my issue not his. Pulling up along side I noticed the hearing aids. It hit me big time-he was hard of hearing, not just hogging the tail and being a jerk...I was the jerk. I thought about the situation the whole rest of the ride.

Yeah, I've been the president of the WMBC for years, I've volunteered thousands of hours, built tons of trail, fielded complaints, gone to meetings, negotiated stewardship agreements etc. etc. But the reality is I don't have ANY more right to the trail than he did because of my efforts. In fact my efforts, and I dare say the WMBC efforts in general, are exactly for his right to the trail as much as mine.

A bit of perspective, a flow check if you will, is a good thing. One maybe we should all do a bit more often.

Share the trails so we can save the trails!

Peace,

MP

Honestly, I rarely run into rude trail users, but certainly a lot of clueless folks that don't know proper trail etiquette. With them, I try to let them know what they're doing and why it's bad form…..without coming across like a condescending a-hole. At the very least, I try to give those folks the benefit of the doubt….unless it's the Rock on one of his "timed rides"!

Of course, I'm the dude that says hi to everyone and when folks refuse to even give eye contact or a head nod, they get killed with kindness from me. I literally said "hi"….."beautiful day"…."trails are in great shape"….."how's your ride going?"…..before a fellow rider replied with a head not last week. Oooh, and he wasn't hard of hearing, just a total curmudgeon.

8 weeks to help gain perspective, MP…..try 5 months off the bike (ok, really don't). Yowza, it was hard not to go crazy with that much downtime this year. Glad to hear you're "back" at it on the rig. Yeah, terrible pun.

Cheers!

EB

From: whimps_mtb_club@yahoogroups.com [mailto:whimps_mtb_club@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Morris Arthur
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 9:21 AM
To: whimps_mtb_club@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [whimps_mtb_club] Eight Weeks of Walking

That's odd.

I have never met a rude trail user on the mountain, I get a grunt or a nod from most folks and a greeting from many.

... even though I'm usually on foot and going the "wrong" way up the trail :)

Morris

>>> "markomtb13" <markomtb13@yahoo.com> 9/6/2010 1:17 PM >>>


It was with interest I watched a thread on another forum...at least until it degenerated into the standard mud slinging troll fest. But, since I have been thinking about posting something on the same topic for quite some time it finally sent me into keyboard mode.

Due to a bulging disc at L5 I've been off the bike for about eight weeks now. The disc pain along with being off the bike has made for some rough weeks. So, in an effort to get some mental recharge I've been hitting up Galbraith in biped mode instead and it has given me some perspective.

Unfortunately, it seems a lack of respect for our fellow trail users is becoming more and more pervasive. A general attitude of get out of my way-I'm in the zone, don't kill my flow (both up and down), this is about my ride and screw yours is creeping in and casting a shadow that if becomes too long will be our user group's downfall. Ok, maybe a little drama here but ramifications of poor user behavior are realities. And, to be fair a group of trail runners was among the worst encounters.

Lately, I've encountered this on multiple fronts-whether riding with my three kids, walking my dog, hiking with my 73 year old dad or trying to regain some mental space and fitness so I can get back on the bike again. Its a disturbing trend and one I can only imagine impacts other non-bike riding users even more.

Over my eight weeks of bipedal Galbraith action I've been appalled at how many times I've been almost mowed over by a biker with nary a head nod, hello or any other acknowledgment. Now mind you I know what its like to want to keep the flow and I'm pretty good about getting off trail so as to SHARE the trail. But, in my early state I physically could barely move, let alone fast-and more than a few times pain ensued as I stepped aside to avoid collision. But the self centered state of riders and any alternative thoughts of my condition and right to be on the trail was obviously non-existent.

So, this experience of the past two months reminded me of one of my own social faux pas. One day I headed out on a ride, it had been a bad day at work, kids were driving me nuts and the ride was going to be my reset. As I cruised up the Ridge looking to push the pace I encountered a slower rider. I rang my bell, no response. I barked out "Rider UP!", no response. Again, I barked "Rider UP!" this time louder, again no response.

After what seemed like forever, but was really a matter of minutes, we exited out at the top of the Ridge by the kiosk. I was about ready to say something about the lack of rider etiquette when I realized it was my issue not his. Pulling up along side I noticed the hearing aids. It hit me big time-he was hard of hearing, not just hogging the tail and being a jerk...I was the jerk. I thought about the situation the whole rest of the ride.

Yeah, I've been the president of the WMBC for years, I've volunteered thousands of hours, built tons of trail, fielded complaints, gone to meetings, negotiated stewardship agreements etc. etc. But the reality is I don't have ANY more right to the trail than he did because of my efforts. In fact my efforts, and I dare say the WMBC efforts in general, are exactly for his right to the trail as much as mine.

A bit of perspective, a flow check if you will, is a good thing. One maybe we should all do a bit more often.

Share the trails so we can save the trails!

Peace,

MP

Gives a whole new meaning to disc brakes . . . .

My L5 and S1 (discectomy, 1987) their sympathy to yours!

Rodd

From: whimps_mtb_club@yahoogroups.com [mailto:whimps_mtb_club@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Brown
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 11:58 AM
To: whimps_mtb_club@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [whimps_mtb_club] Eight Weeks of Walking


Honestly, I rarely run into rude trail users, but certainly a lot of clueless folks that don't know proper trail etiquette. With them, I try to let them know what they're doing and why it's bad form…..without coming across like a condescending a-hole. At the very least, I try to give those folks the benefit of the doubt….unless it's the Rock on one of his "timed rides"!
Of course, I'm the dude that says hi to everyone and when folks refuse to even give eye contact or a head nod, they get killed with kindness from me. I literally said "hi"….."beautiful day"…."trails are in great shape"….."how's your ride going?"…..before a fellow rider replied with a head not last week. Oooh, and he wasn't hard of hearing, just a total curmudgeon.
8 weeks to help gain perspective, MP…..try 5 months off the bike (ok, really don't). Yowza, it was hard not to go crazy with that much downtime this year. Glad to hear you're "back" at it on the rig. Yeah, terrible pun.
Cheers!
EB
From: whimps_mtb_club@yahoogroups.com [mailto:whimps_mtb_club@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Morris Arthur
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 9:21 AM
To: whimps_mtb_club@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [whimps_mtb_club] Eight Weeks of Walking

That's odd.
I have never met a rude trail user on the mountain, I get a grunt or a nod from most folks and a greeting from many.

... even though I'm usually on foot and going the "wrong" way up the trail :)

Morris

>>> "markomtb13" <markomtb13@yahoo.com> 9/6/2010 1:17 PM >>>


It was with interest I watched a thread on another forum...at least until it degenerated into the standard mud slinging troll fest. But, since I have been thinking about posting something on the same topic for quite some time it finally sent me into keyboard mode.

Due to a bulging disc at L5 I've been off the bike for about eight weeks now. The disc pain along with being off the bike has made for some rough weeks. So, in an effort to get some mental recharge I've been hitting up Galbraith in biped mode instead and it has given me some perspective.

Unfortunately, it seems a lack of respect for our fellow trail users is becoming more and more pervasive. A general attitude of get out of my way-I'm in the zone, don't kill my flow (both up and down), this is about my ride and screw yours is creeping in and casting a shadow that if becomes too long will be our user group's downfall. Ok, maybe a little drama here but ramifications of poor user behavior are realities. And, to be fair a group of trail runners was among the worst encounters.

Lately, I've encountered this on multiple fronts-whether riding with my three kids, walking my dog, hiking with my 73 year old dad or trying to regain some mental space and fitness so I can get back on the bike again. Its a disturbing trend and one I can only imagine impacts other non-bike riding users even more.

Over my eight weeks of bipedal Galbraith action I've been appalled at how many times I've been almost mowed over by a biker with nary a head nod, hello or any other acknowledgment. Now mind you I know what its like to want to keep the flow and I'm pretty good about getting off trail so as to SHARE the trail. But, in my early state I physically could barely move, let alone fast-and more than a few times pain ensued as I stepped aside to avoid collision. But the self centered state of riders and any alternative thoughts of my condition and right to be on the trail was obviously non-existent.

So, this experience of the past two months reminded me of one of my own social faux pas. One day I headed out on a ride, it had been a bad day at work, kids were driving me nuts and the ride was going to be my reset. As I cruised up the Ridge looking to push the pace I encountered a slower rider. I rang my bell, no response. I barked out "Rider UP!", no response. Again, I barked "Rider UP!" this time louder, again no response.

After what seemed like forever, but was really a matter of minutes, we exited out at the top of the Ridge by the kiosk. I was about ready to say something about the lack of rider etiquette when I realized it was my issue not his. Pulling up along side I noticed the hearing aids. It hit me big time-he was hard of hearing, not just hogging the tail and being a jerk...I was the jerk. I thought about the situation the whole rest of the ride.

Yeah, I've been the president of the WMBC for years, I've volunteered thousands of hours, built tons of trail, fielded complaints, gone to meetings, negotiated stewardship agreements etc. etc. But the reality is I don't have ANY more right to the trail than he did because of my efforts. In fact my efforts, and I dare say the WMBC efforts in general, are exactly for his right to the trail as much as mine.

A bit of perspective, a flow check if you will, is a good thing. One maybe we should all do a bit more often.

Share the trails so we can save the trails!

Peace,

MP

I've had good experiences riding Galbraith the past 2 years. Can't really recall a bad encounter with fellow users. I usually hit the trails a couple of times a week for 2+ hrs on weekdays and 4+ on weekends. I ride most everything, but generally stay away from the Evo-Uline-Adog descent. Just not my cup-o-tea.

I started riding in SoCal, where all kinds of trail and user conflict are the norm and the old shuttle-vs-pedal discussion brings out dogmatically insane zealots all around. It was not unusual to be ignored by hikers who won't move out of the way, get run over by DHer's in full armor, and have a near head-on with a spandex pace line taking the whole trail around a blind curve. Sometimes on the same day.

I saw some of the same while we were living near Seattle, but not nearly as bad as down south.

Seems to me like we have it pretty good up here. Maybe partially due to less users/acre, but I'd like to think we're all generally just better people :). I guess the price of freedom is constant vigilance, so probably good to do what we can to prevent it.

Although I'm not sure what that is except to set a good example and call out those who don't.

Hey, maybe we can turn one of the kiosks into a public pillory? Cat 'o 9-tails anyone?